From now on, on Israel’s response sign joint by Robert Nee, the US former state department official who’s now a council on foreign relations. Oh, Robert, thank you very much for coming in.

现在让我们来讨论以色列该做出怎样回应的问题。我们有幸请到了美国前国务院官员现国家外交关系委员会委员罗伯特来参与讨论，非常感谢罗伯特能来参加这个节目。

Clearly, today Israel focus on the funeral, but even today the cabinet’s gathering to talk about what military’s response should be. What do you think Israel’s gonna do response to this?

显然，现在以色列更加注重葬礼问题，但是即使在今天，内阁会议还在讨论军方的回应是什么。你认为以色列会怎样回应呢?

Well, Israel is divided among themselves about what to do. There seems to be three basic options that they are considering. You know. One is going into the West Bank, trying to uproot Hamas even further than they have already. The second is going into Gaza and trying to uproot Hamas there. The third is obviously searching for the perpetrator of the kidnapping. They are definitely going to the third option. The question is what of the other two, will they choose…

以色列现在已经把部队分成了这样几部分。看起来有三种考虑的方案。一部分是去西岸，对哈马斯试图进行更深一步的铲除。另一部分就是去加沙，推翻哈马斯政权。第三部分当然是去寻找犯罪嫌疑人。问题是另外这两种方案，他们会怎样选择。

And what if they do go to the Gaza, what are you talking about? Are we talking about airstrikes against militants or militants positions in Gaza? What do you think there could actually be a significant ground operation for example?

他们表明了他们将进入加沙。现在你在讨论什么?我们现在讨论的是空袭所给加沙带来的激进立场，或者说，你认为这可以作为重要的地面活动例子么?

That’s to debate. I mean, well, the question is what if, what if the objective, what if they’re going to try to do. Uh, because they push too hard, and let’s say bring about Hamas demised, there’s even more radical forces in Gaza, who would lead to great chaos. So it’s that they wanna do that. They’ve had certain understand of Hamas. They are gonna punish Hamas and punish them quite hard which I think it means they probably won’t going underground, although there’re people are arguing for it. I think we’ll see significant airstrikes against Hamas infrastructure within Gaza for sure.

那是掩饰。问题是如果他们真正那样做了怎么办。因为他们攻击很猛，可以说给哈马斯带来了毁灭，三个甚至更多的激进部队在加沙聚集，给当地居民带来了巨大的混乱，这才是他们真正想要做的。他们很少去了解哈马斯，因为他们只想惩罚哈马斯，甚至更加残酷。所以我认为激进部队的集合可能并不代表袭击就在陆地进行，像很多人争论的那样，我认为这将是加沙为了给哈马斯造成巨大的空中袭击所做的基础准备。

OK, what if the indications that for Mahmoud Abbas this might mean that he has to split with Hamas if he doesn’t want to feel the ruthful Israeli fire power against him too by extension.

如果这些马哈茂德哈巴斯所表现出来的迹象是由于他不想看到以色列因为自己而造成战火连天呢?

Well, I don’t think that what he’s heading. I mean right now the Palestinian security forces have been cooperating with Israeli on the West Bank trying to find the perpetrator trying to keep security of the West Bank. But this has produced a backlash among the Palestinian people. They’re not happy. That’s not so much they aren’t so happy but the kidnapping but they don’t like the fact that Palestinians are cooperating with Israelis while Palestinians are getting killed by Israelis searching for perpetrator of this crime. So, I think in this point, Abbas, Mamhoud Abbas has very difficult chooses to break with Hamas right now, I think, completely will be unpopular because unity is popular among all Palestinians regardless their political strike, even though they might side with one side or the other, what they want more than anything is for the Palestinian in fact to come together for the West Bank and Gaza to be reunified, Palestine wants to be one political entity, and not have this in fighting.

我不认为他在躲藏。我是说，现在巴勒斯坦安全部队正在与以色列就西岸合作试图找出犯罪者保持西岸的安全。但是却巴勒斯坦人民之间产生了一条反斜线。他们并不快乐。明显地对与以色列合作而巴勒斯坦人民却在此过程中被杀害表示抗议。所以在这一观点上，马哈茂德哈巴斯在处理与哈马斯关系上很难做出选择。我认为这个完全不能受到欢迎，因为统一整体的观念在巴勒斯坦人民当中非常认同。即使他们形成不同的队伍，所有人民最想得到的东西是完整统一，西岸和加沙能重新被组织起来形成一个统一的政府，没有内部斗争。

OK, Robert. So how does this play out, I mean, it’s obviously the short term retaliation and retribution for what happened to these teenagers but there’s bound to be longer term fallouts from this, isn’t it?

那怎样才能做到呢?我是指短时间内对这些青少年所造成的影响会对形成一个更长久的着火点，对么?

Absolutely, I think the first casualty of this in a longer term, it is going to be the national unity government that Mamhoud Abbas is overseeing. That government came together in order to form and hold election for Palestinian institution. I think we are now much further from those elections than that, we were beforehand. And if we don’t have election that means there’s no real legitimacy for the leadership. It means that the ongoing political stagnation that’s taking place in Palestinian institution will continue. There’s no prospect of a renewed peace process. I think the only way out potentially for Mamhoud Abbas in this is for him not to amuse the Westerns, that he would return to international forum in which he will challenge Israel for greater legitimacy and recognition for Palestinian statehood.

当然，我认为从长远的角度来看第一次伤亡事故的话，这将对马哈茂德哈马斯怎样保持国家的团结统一起到监督作用。政府的出现是为了形成和选举巴勒斯坦政治制度。我认为我们现在已经比之前选举前进了不少。如果我们没有选举制度的话，就意味着整个领导团队没有法律可言。也就意味着发生在巴勒斯坦地区的政治停滞现象也将继续下去。远远看不到和平出现的希望。我认为唯一马哈茂德哈马斯可做的是不要让西方人民看笑话，这样他才有可能重返国家论坛，去和以色列进行更合法的竞争，重新稳固巴勒斯坦的世界地位。

OK, wish we should take of it, i have a more optimistic, one day I'll give you in there a more optimistic forum in this process 'cause there has not been very many as in recently. Robert Amin, thank you very much.

希望我们能达到，我还是挺看好的。总有一天我会给你一个更加乐观的话题来讨论，因为最近没有符合的话题。非常感谢来参加我们的讨论。

Thank you.

谢谢。

From now on, on Israel’s response sign joint by Robert Nee, the US former state department official who’s now a council on foreign relations. Oh, Robert, thank you very much for coming in.

Clearly, today Israel focus on the funeral, but even today the cabinet’s gathering to talk about what military’s response should be. What do you think Israel’s gonna do response to this?

Well, Israel is divided among themselves about what to do. There seems to be three basic options that they are considering. You know. One is going into the West Bank, trying to uproot Hamas even further than they have already. The second is going into Gaza and trying to uproot Hamas there. The third is obviously searching for the perpetrator of the kidnapping. They are definitely going to the third option. The question is what of the other two, will they choose…

And what if they do go to the Gaza, what are you talking about? Are we talking about airstrikes against militants or militants positions in Gaza? What do you think there could actually be a significant ground operation for example?

That’s to debate. I mean, well, the question is what if, what if the objective, what if they’re going to try to do. Uh, because they push too hard, and let’s say bring about Hamas demised, there’s even more radical forces in Gaza, who would lead to great chaos. So it’s that they wanna do that. They’ve had certain understand of Hamas. They are gonna punish Hamas and punish them quite hard which I think it means they probably won’t going underground, although there’re people are arguing for it. I think we’ll see significant airstrikes against Hamas infrastructure within Gaza for sure.

OK, what if the indications that for Mahmoud Abbas this might mean that he has to split with Hamas if he doesn’t want to feel the ruthful Israeli fire power against him too by extension.

Well, I don’t think that what he’s heading. I mean right now the Palestinian security forces have been cooperating with Israeli on the West Bank trying to find the perpetrator trying to keep security of the West Bank. But this has produced a backlash among the Palestinian people. They’re not happy. That’s not so much they aren’t so happy but the kidnapping but they don’t like the fact that Palestinians are cooperating with Israelis while Palestinians are getting killed by Israelis searching for perpetrator of this crime. So, I think in this point, Abbas, Mamhoud Abbas has very difficult chooses to break with Hamas right now, I think, completely will be unpopular because unity is popular among all Palestinians regardless their political strike, even though they might side with one side or the other, what they want more than anything is for the Palestinian in fact to come together for the West Bank and Gaza to be reunified, Palestine wants to be one political entity, and not have this in fighting.

OK, Robert. So how does this play out, I mean, it’s obviously the short term retaliation and retribution for what happened to these teenagers but there’s bound to be longer term fallouts from this, isn’t it?

Absolutely, I think the first casualty of this in a longer term, it is going to be the national unity government that Mamhoud Abbas is overseeing. That government came together in order to form and hold election for Palestinian institution. I think we are now much further from those elections than that, we were beforehand. And if we don’t have election that means there’s no real legitimacy for the leadership. It means that the ongoing political stagnation that’s taking place in Palestinian institution will continue. There’s no prospect of a renewed peace process. I think the only way out potentially for Mamhoud Abbas in this is for him not to amuse the Westerns, that he would return to international forum in which he will challenge Israel for greater legitimacy and recognition for Palestinian statehood.

OK, wish we should take of it, i have a more optimistic, one day I'll give you in there a more optimistic forum in this process 'cause there has not been very many as in recently. Robert Amin, thank you very much.

Thank you.